Featured Is Hell a place for eternal punishment?

[bbyrd009]

Hel as we know it was an import of England’s Norse/Angle scribes, who likely just had no better term to translate into; guess they didnt burn their trash? lol

Ha!

Here's an interesting article I found on that:

The mindset of applying hell to all the bad people who don’t make it to a nice place in the afterlife is universal and deeply rooted, even in the minds of Bible translators. After the Reformation and the Roman Catholic Council of Trent, two of the earliest and most important English versions of the Bible were published—the Catholic Douay Reims Version and the Protestant King James Version.
In these Bibles, both Sheol and Hades, together with Gehenna, appear as the English word “hell.”
And it’s theorized that these translations were both influenced by Saint Augustine’s theology.

As a result, most English Bible translations uses “hell” for the words Gehenna, Hades, and Tartarus. For a long time the only version that did not was Young’s Literal Translation, published in 1862. As with everything else in his translation, Young keeps intact all the Greek words referring to the afterlife. But with all the modern versions dumping several different terms into one hell basket, it’s no surprise that we have hundreds of millions of English speakers who view hell simplistically and unbiblically. Thankfully, more modern translations are now properly distinguishing Hades from hell, or at least adding notations. Gehenna is almost always rendered “hell.”

cont'd

What is Gehenna?
Every city needs a garbage dump. And before recycling, places like Jerusalem burned their garbage—day and night for millennia. In this same place, Kings Ahaz and Manasseh sacrificed their own sons (2 Chronicles 28:3 and 33:6). The dump was the valley on the south side of Jerusalem, the Valley of Ben Hinnom (son of Hinnom), or the Valley of Hinnom, in Hebrew Ge Hinnom. Jesus takes this imagery of refuse, perpetual fire, and human sacrifice, along with the name, to describe for us the eternal destiny of the damned, rendered in Greek as “Gehenna.”

i suggest that there is a problem here, in this widely accepted use of Gehenna as an allegory for what we now know as “hel;” namely that Gehenna is right here on earth, and the Greeks already had perfectly good allegories for hel, as has even been mentioned. Why use Gehenna when you have Apollyon and Abbadon, and Tartarus?

And when you go look, the relevant “eternal” is not even derived from the Greek for forever, aidios, see; the Bible warns us about scribes, who will translate to suit their biases and audience. Aion: a space of time, an age (!)

Gehenna, then, is what most people really mean when they say hell: judgment, punishment, fire, eternal misery. But we do not see anything about the devil or demons poking people with pitchforks or anything close to that. According to Scripture, these fallen angels will suffer in Gehenna too—but only at the end of time (Revelation 20:7–15). Now they’re in Tartarus (more on that in another article).

Source: https://www.peterlundell.com/online-library/entries/to-hades-with-hell/hell-gehenna/

ya, no angels suffering Gehenna in the Rev, oops

 

[AgnosticBoy]

And when you go look, the relevant “eternal” is not even derived from the Greek for forever, aidios, see; the Bible warns us about scribes, who will translate to suit their biases and audience. Aion: a space of time, an age (!)

Looked at its usage in Revelation 20:10. It can refer to "an age", but it can also refer to "an indefinite amount of time".

From Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words

Noun	Strong's Number:g165

[td width="unset"]
Greek:aion

[/td]​

"an age, era" (to be connected with aei, "ever," rather than with ao, "to breathe"), signifies a period of indefinite duration, or time viewed in relation to what takes place in the period. The force attaching to the word is not so much that of the actual length of a period, but that of a period marked by spiritual or moral characteristics. This is illustrated in the use of the adjective [see Note (1) below] in the phrase "life eternal," in Jhn 17:3, in respect of the increasing knowledge of God.

The phrases containing this word should not be rendered literally, but consistently with its sense of indefinite duration. Thus eis ton aiona does not mean "unto the age" but "for ever" (see, e.g., Hbr 5:6). The Greeks contrasted that which came to an end with that which was expressed by this phrase, which shows that they conceived of it as expressing interminable duration.

For now I would say that there's room for the Greek work to mean "eternal". Also checkout Scooter's posts where he makes the case that Hell and those in it will be punished forever (posts 3 and 5)

 

[bbyrd009]

And when you go look, the relevant “eternal” is not even derived from the Greek for forever, aidios, see; the Bible warns us about scribes, who will translate to suit their biases and audience. Aion: a space of time, an age (!)

Looked at its usage in Revelation 20:10. It can refer to "an age", but it can also refer to "an indefinite amount of time".

From Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words

ah, i noticed that one—although i meant to refer to the ones earlier in the NT mostly—and tbh i would translate that “from age to age” rather than try and insert any “forevers” in there…although “an indefinite amount of time” is prolly still close enough i guess. Gotta watch/be careful of Vine’s and even Strong’s now though

Noun	Strong's Number:g165

[td width="unset"]
Greek:aion

[/td]​

"an age, era" (to be connected with aei, "ever," rather than with ao, "to breathe"), signifies a period of indefinite duration, or time viewed in relation to what takes place in the period. The force attaching to the word is not so much that of the actual length of a period, but that of a period marked by spiritual or moral characteristics. This is illustrated in the use of the adjective [see Note (1) below] in the phrase "life eternal," in Jhn 17:3, in respect of the increasing knowledge of God.

The phrases containing this word should not be rendered literally, but consistently with its sense of indefinite duration. Thus eis ton aiona does not mean "unto the age" but "for ever" (see, e.g., Hbr 5:6). The Greeks contrasted that which came to an end with that which was expressed by this phrase, which shows that they conceived of it as expressing interminable duration.

For now I would say that there's room for the Greek work to mean "eternal". Also checkout Scooter's posts where he makes the case that Hell and those in it will be punished forever (posts 3 and 5)

well, ill prolly pass, as Scooter is a believer, right? A gnostic one, even. “Its like this and like that and like this”
Iow when i start with the Quoting, All go to the same place, No one has ever gone up to heaven, etc, and we find Gehenna xlated as “hel,” and he doesnt even know who Hel is, i mean what is the point, really

Hel (mythological being) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

and the point at aion v aidios, to me, is that it is not ever “forever” (or immortal)

 

[bbyrd009]

Yes, Hell is forever. Those who teach Hell is temporary have developed this false doctrine, IMHO, to soothe a guilty conscience. If Hell was only a temporary place, there would be no need to evangelize the world. Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

All go to the same place
When you’re ready we can consult the text in other places and your confident declarations will basically get shredded into hamster bedding, ok; Hel is a Norse Goddess, repped in Greek by Tartarus, and although im sure you are being told that Gehenna is hel that is warped at best since Gehenna is right here on earth, and as hard as it might be to contemplate, our need for hel is the result of a desire for heaven, basically, or iow the Elysian Fields (Cult of Sol Invictus, RCC) that Constantine imported into nascent Christianity, with Hel being substituted for Gehenna by Norse/Angle scribes later, apparently. He who digs a pit for others to fall into ends up in it himself

You might even contemplate the common definition of “saved,” which is presented to us as “forever,” when after all “saved” might just mean…saved? Not unalived, iow? He saved others but could not save Himself

 

[bbyrd009]

Thanks for the good replies, Scooter.

I also found this interesting passage -
Matthew 25:31-33, 41-43, 47
31“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

41“Then he will say to those on his left,
‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
46“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

The one passage that casts doubt in me still is Matthew 10:28. It seems to say that the soul can be "destroyed" in Hell.

28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

I said “you are Elohim” ( the “you” being you, and the I being Yah) and the fact that that “hel” is actually Gehenna, right here on earth, in the orig Greek, maybe tell a diff story? But that v has always bugged me, esp bc of the way “soul” is used there, when it is acknowledged as the same as “breath,” or iow one has a soul in the same way that they have breath, or iow one is a soul, and doesnt really “have” a soul.

My sole (pun intended) consolation there is that the v is not witnessed, at least that i am aware of? It is closely danced around elsewhere, but no direct witness that i can find. Makes me wonder why the authors didnt anticipate the dumbing down of humanity though…i mean they (the Romans) were swimming in lead lol, youda thought that the stupid was becoming exponentially more prevalent every year

Anyway, to xlate Gehenna as Hel when they already had more than one perfectly good term for it strikes me as scribing at its very best; when someone tells me that it is just an analogy, esp when they refuse to see so many other analogies that are actually prolly relevant, i mean, what is there to say, really

 

[Scooter]

Yes, Hell is forever. Those who teach Hell is temporary have developed this false doctrine, IMHO, to soothe a guilty conscience. If Hell was only a temporary place, there would be no need to evangelize the world. Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

All go to the same place
When you’re ready we can consult the text in other places and your confident declarations will basically get shredded into hamster bedding, ok; Hel is a Norse Goddess, repped in Greek by Tartarus, and although im sure you are being told that Gehenna is hel that is warped at best since Gehenna is right here on earth, and as hard as it might be to contemplate, our need for hel is the result of a desire for heaven, basically, or iow the Elysian Fields (Cult of Sol Invictus, RCC) that Constantine imported into nascent Christianity, with Hel being substituted for Gehenna by Norse/Angle scribes later, apparently. He who digs a pit for others to fall into ends up in it himself

You might even contemplate the common definition of “saved,” which is presented to us as “forever,” when after all “saved” might just mean…saved? Not unalived, iow? He saved others but could not save Himself

Before the resurrection of Christ, all went to the same place. However, after the resurrection, Jesus opened the way for believers to go to Heaven. Now, only nonbelievers are in Hell. So go ahead and try to shred my belief.

 

[bbyrd009]

Yes, Hell is forever. Those who teach Hell is temporary have developed this false doctrine, IMHO, to soothe a guilty conscience. If Hell was only a temporary place, there would be no need to evangelize the world. Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

All go to the same place
When you’re ready we can consult the text in other places and your confident declarations will basically get shredded into hamster bedding, ok; Hel is a Norse Goddess, repped in Greek by Tartarus, and although im sure you are being told that Gehenna is hel that is warped at best since Gehenna is right here on earth, and as hard as it might be to contemplate, our need for hel is the result of a desire for heaven, basically, or iow the Elysian Fields (Cult of Sol Invictus, RCC) that Constantine imported into nascent Christianity, with Hel being substituted for Gehenna by Norse/Angle scribes later, apparently. He who digs a pit for others to fall into ends up in it himself

You might even contemplate the common definition of “saved,” which is presented to us as “forever,” when after all “saved” might just mean…saved? Not unalived, iow? He saved others but could not save Himself

Before the resurrection of Christ, all went to the same place. However, after the resurrection, Jesus opened the way for believers to go to Heaven. Now, only nonbelievers are in Hell. So go ahead and try to shred my belief.

nah, i just only said that bc you are such a gnostic lol, with the statements of fact and all. Just yanking your chain a little. Go try and Quote any of that imo, and youll see soon enough. Or not. All go to the same place and dust to dust is still in your Bible too, see, and i even understand why you say what you do.

I even have those on a list somewhere, but its just too…inflammatory, i guess? So i dont post it anymore lol.

But you might go contemplate the mythology of Legion, and ask Yah to give you some insight into correctly identifying the players involved, were there one or two? etc. since that seems to be a good primer. ok peace

 

[Scooter]

nah, i just only said that bc you are such a gnostic lol, with the statements of fact and all

So what’s your definition of a “gnostic”?

 

[bbyrd009]

nah, i just only said that bc you are such a gnostic lol, with the statements of fact and all

So what’s your definition of a “gnostic”?

well, those who make statements of fact? I know this, i know that?

He who says that he knows any thing does not yet know it as he ought

 

[Scooter]

nah, i just only said that bc you are such a gnostic lol, with the statements of fact and all

So what’s your definition of a “gnostic”?

well, those who make statements of fact? I know this, i know that?

He who says that he knows any thing does not yet know it as he ought

Your definition is somewhat skewed. Gnostics were a sect of early Christians who believed true knowledge came from rejecting the physical, material world believing it is all evil, and emphasizing the spiritual world. Gnostics did not believe Jesus came in the flesh nor did they believe Jesus actually died on the cross.

I am not a gnostic at all. I do not reject the fact that Jesus came in the flesh and He died. Neither do I believe everything material is evil. Now, I do not claim to know everything. But I do know Jesus said He was coming back, and I know Hell is a place of eternal torment. Would it be fair to call you a nonbeliever if you call me a gnostic?